004: Drew Kennedy

Thomas Mooney: Hey everyone, welcome to Episode Four of the new slang podcast. I'm Thomas Mooney and this week's episode is brought to you by the blue light live. They are the home of Americana country folk rock, and all just all things Texas music here in Lubbock. We often talk about all the music that originates here in Lubbock starting out at the blue light as far as people playing Monday, songwriter night and going on to throw together Tuesday gigs and eventually working their way down to the end of the week. You know, you've heard all the Songwriters like William Clark green and Charlie shafter, Josh Abbott, Brandon Adams will read Shanahan. You know, you know that story already. What's probably glossed over though, is that the blue light also happens to be the home away from home for many other bands who by now, they are widely recognized, but when that when they were first getting those gigs outside their, their home city, a lot of them happen to be at the blue light, just like the three that are playing blue light this weekend. Thursday. It's lawless Americans if you aren't aware of who that is, it's a side project offshoot from the guys from dolly shot. It's been Hussey and Jared flew she and Johnny Goodson which Ben Hussey, we recorded a episode of the podcast a few weeks back, and his episode will be coming out, I guess just not next week. But the week after Friday night is going to be the dirty river boys, which they do have presale tickets available for that. I'll get a little bit more information for you in a second. And then Saturday. It's one of our good buddies, Eric Willis. He's really just one of the new voices of Texas country soul kind of stuff. So you'll be wanting to make sure to go out to at least one of those nights of music. So I mentioned presale tickets for dirty river boys earlier. To purchase those you'll want to head over to the blue lights, Facebook or their official website at the blue light live.com. You can find a link for for those tickets at either of those two places. There are a few other presale shows of interest listed over there right now. Friday, April 15. We've talked about it probably every week now. It's William Clark Green Street show party featuring will American aquarium red Shea hand. And violin, Calvary. Tuesday, May 31. That's going to be James McCartney. Yes. like Paul McCartney son. He's a songwriter, and he's going to be playing the blue light on Tuesday, May 31. And then on Thursday, June 9, it's going to be bin Nichols of loose arrow and Oliver Peck. So go over to the blue light lab comm or their Facebook page and find a link to buy those tickets. Okay, so this week we have singer songwriter drew Kennedy on Drew, he's one of my favorite songwriters, artists, and just overall performers, Blaine music right now. He's just incredibly talented. And if you spend more than five minutes with with him in any kind of conversation, you learn that he's one of the most thoughtful minds and great conversationalists in Texas and in Americana music. The man just has a gift for communication. The day that we recorded, this was a Sunday, he'd be opening for the trashes at the cactus theater later that evening. And after we recorded this podcast, he pulled out his phone and showed me the video that when he was he was going to be using for his Kickstarter for his upcoming album at the at home in the big lonesome. In the video, Kennedy, he's listing all these numbers that he's gone through since his last record. And he said all these numbers were accurate except for one of them. I'll let you guess which which one of those numbers was just a guesstimate moreso than a factual piece of information. Anyways, those numbers, those miles driven shows played songs written. They're all important to Drew. Not because he's bragging about I've played all these shows and you haven't or anything like that, but but because that's what it's taken him to come to the point of going all right, it's time to record a new record. And I find it so incredibly interesting to see that he could like not necessarily remember all those numbers, but that at some point during that time he thought it would be a great diet, great idea to keep track of all of them. As of now, he's already met his goal of for his Kickstarter. But there are still 10 days left, that if you haven't backed the project, you can. It's essentially the easiest way to pre order the album. And you'll be getting it before it officially releases. Of course, there's other things you can get as well, as far as a, like a show at your house. And you know, vinyl and ball gaps and all kinds of stuff like that on include a link to the at home in the big lonesome Kickstarter page, when I post this, so it's easier for you to find one more note, new slang now does have T shirts so that we, we officially gotten in, they're really cool. Or at least I think they are, they may not be. But anyways, you can find a photo of them online. And if you if you want to order one, or 20 or something like that, just get a hold of us through one of the avenues of social media, probably the easiest is going to be on twitter at New slang underscore lbk. So anyways, on to the interview with Drew Kennedy, where we talk about all these cool things about music and baseball and stuff. Drew Kennedy: freshman year of college, they gave me an email address, this is to 1998. Like, here's your email address, you got to write down a password. I was like, I mean, he's gonna use this, I'm not going to use this. This is what I don't even know what this is, you know, well, guess what, it's not a fad, it's sticking around, you know, it's gonna stick around. And so when you think about that idea that the art that you make, now doesn't have to be transferred into a different format. To be archived. There's some pressure that goes into that, like, this isn't a joke, you're not, you know, this will be my fifth studio record my eighth record overall. And at this point, you better you better come with something to say. Because you can't be a 36 year old troubadour songwriter, putting out a bunch of bullshit. Without any substance. At this point, you've been around long enough, people were gonna want to know what you've made of the world around you. So, you know, it's not, I'm not not cranking out feelgood hits of the summer, that's not my job. My job is, is I observe the world around me and do my best to explain it in a way that makes sense to me. And hopefully a way that makes sense to people that are listening. That's what I do. I don't need to explain why go into spring break is a good time because it's just a good time. You know, I'd rather talk about the guy who cleans the bathroom, the public bathrooms by the beach in South Padre, I'd rather sing his song, rather than sing the song about all the college kids that are getting completely hammered. And, you know, trashing everything around them. So you know that there's, I just, I just want to make sure that every time I make a record, especially now nothing's mailed in. I've considered every line I've considered every topic. I've considered every way to approach all of those things to where when you hear the final product, I want it to be me at 36 saying these things. Thomas Mooney: Well, so much about making records, I think should be about where you are, how old you are, in how many albums you've had like this, this album should be different than the record. You made it yesterday. And I think you could it needs to be the songs need to be hopefully just at as mature as you are at 36 as just an individual. Yeah. You know, as your songwriter at 36. You there's a change. There's so many people, they find that thing that they do, and then they stick to writing those songs. They stick to the spring break song. Yeah. Drew Kennedy: Well, I mean, it's, I just don't believe that writers have one topic that's in their wheelhouse. I think you have a topic that's in your wheelhouse that year. And as you age, you know, there are other things like we all evolve as people. And there's no reason why the art shouldn't evolve to and I understand that commerce gets in the way and the bigger you get the bigger tours, the more people are relying on your success for their income and there's pressure to repeat, tremendous success that you've had because people it's not just It's not necessarily just even for your ego, but it's because people's livelihoods are now depending on you, you have become an industry and you're providing jobs for people, I understand why more established artists will stick with what has worked in the past, because they have that. But I mean, it's just me, I don't have to stick to anything. And other than what I feel like is what I want to say. And so I'm really, there's a lot of freedom in that. And so, sure, I would have been happy to record the spring break record when I was 21. But I 36 it's not, it's not that. And I just, you know, I just I've always loved country music so much, because historically, it's an adult format, it was talking about real adult issues. And I turn on kenchi radio Now sometimes, and I don't know who they're talking to, but they're not talking to me. And I wish they were because, you know, I'm in my mid 30s. You know, and you're talking kids and mortgage and stress and pressure about making sure you provide for others. I would really love to hear, you know, bunch of great songs, totally hit home with what my life is when I turn on the radio. But instead, people like, you have to turn me on to some new songwriter that I've never heard of before that does that. Yeah, you know, it's it's become a niche thing, to be honest about where you are in your life. And I just, I think it's probably everything cyclical and everything changes. And I think it's going it's shifting back towards a little more reality in the songs. But for my money can't happen soon enough, you know? Yeah. My dad was always like, you don't need to buy CDs, you can just listen to the radio. And I don't think like you. My brother's like 14 years younger than me. I don't think he's telling my brother that same thing anymore. Not anymore. Like, you know, I mean, there was a time before the internet turned the music business Into the Wild West. I mean, if you signed a record deal, you know, you made it through so many levels of gatekeepers to where you're really, I mean, it's art, your music has gotten enough of a stamp of approval, all the way down the line, that by the time it gets to radio, you know, there's going to be quality there. Yeah. And there's taste and everything, but I just mean, the acts that the huge labels were putting out at the time, were all pretty much at the top of their game. And now it's become so wide open that you really have to dig to find stuff that speaks to you. There's no format, like if Aerosmith came out with Dream on as like that, that band, then when they released that song, like where would they go? What what format would break Aerosmith? Yeah, you know, they'd have to break themselves with being a live band. So huge band that had number one hits over like, three or four decades. And so it's just it's just, there's less, there's less people to point you to what your is going to speak to you. And it's more on you as a listener to say like, Alright, music is really important to me, and I really want to know that other people are feeling what I'm feeling right now. I can't be the only one. So I got to go find it. And that is both exciting, and a little bit of a letdown that we've lost that. Yeah. Well, just the whole internet thing. We're literally right now we can both find whatever song most likely. on our phones. Yes, right now. Yeah. But that but it's you know, it's a sea. That is just limitless. Yeah. Where you have to shift sift and find things. It's, it can be daunting to Yes. It's funny. It's so it's so convenient to get what you want to hear. But how do you find what you want to hear? Yeah, you know, that's so so the accessibility to what you want is become easier than ever. We have an entire cultures worth of music library in our pockets with our phone. But the thing that it's complicated is discoverability you discover anything, but there's nobody to say like this isn't good enough to be sold on iTunes. This isn't good enough for commercial release yet. You guys need to keep working. That doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. So it's, you have to do your homework and people don't like homework. Yeah. But that's too I think, like there's only I don't expect people to be like me, as far as you know, just constantly listening to music and always just analyzing it. Even if I'm just, you know, not doing like not quote unquote, working, right. I'm always just analyzing a song thinking about what where this person is coming from. I don't expect everyone to be like that. Yeah. So Yeah, like sometimes, I guess like people, they, they end up just listening to the radio or just putting it on Pandora shirt, whatever, just because they don't want to have to search for it. You know, I don't, I think it's, you know, it's easy to say that that's an inherent laziness in our culture. But I don't agree with that, I think you have to invest so much of yourself, to listen to music. And you and I probably listen to music the same way. And we're probably not the normal case, as far as music consumer goes, but I invest so much of myself listening to new music, going into it with no expectations, like focusing so much on the lyrics and the turn of phrase or, or listening to the production, like you really take all of it in, and it takes a couple listens to make a decision. And listening, a picture of someone listening to something makes it look like it's a very passive, easy thing to do. But it is difficult, like it takes a lot of a lot of concentration and a lot of energy to come up with an opinion about something that you're hearing. And, and so to ask people to, to do that much work to find stuff that's going to turn them on is, um, it's music, people love to do it. But somebody can easily say, Man, I really want to do that. But I got to make dinner for three kids. Yeah, and I just don't have the time. Yeah. And maybe I'll listen when they go to bed, but I'm going to be pretty tired too. So it's, you know, it's like, I get like, there's life gets in the way. Yeah. Does that, but it's also one of the reasons why I really don't necessarily like album reviews. Yeah. As far as you know, we're given this four stars, we're given this 45, you know, whatever. Sure. putting it on a 10 point scale, because, you know, all these album reviews, they come out the week that they that they're being released. And I just don't know, if they're, if you're, if you've given enough time to have a informed opinion on on some album, yeah, why new orders not agree with you more. And I've said as much in conversation with friends, and even to a couple of critics, I know, it's, I do not envy their job, because they have deadlines, and they have a paycheck, that's their job, they're getting paid to do this. And the new release comes across their desk, and it's gonna come out in a month, and you have a certain amount of time to publish your review so that it's relevant. So people that want to know what this record is going to be like, are going to find it. And so you listen to the record a couple of times, and you write your review. as a performer, as a writer, I do not know the song that I've just written. until I've played it 10 times on stage, and even then, we're just shaking hands. Like, it might be until like, performance, 30 or 50, where like, we've hugged, you know, or had an in depth conversation, like, it's just even as the person creating it, it's still so new to you that I don't even know what I have on my hands until it's been around for a while. And as a critic. I mean, I wonder how those reviews would change. If somebody said like, Alright, here's the record you're going to listen to this month, it's coming out in two months. So in 30 days, I want you to review this record, and I want you to listen to it every day. And really, like I because I I wonder how many people will go back and change their reviews after two listens. Yeah. And so I just I do not envy that job at all. I mean, I think it takes all of the joy and beauty out of listening to music, and boils it down to this must complete must say something unique. When I read reviews on Pitchfork, yeah, I've spent 12 years of my life as a professional musician, as a songwriter, as someone that's produced records for myself. And for other people. When I read those reviews, I would say 60% of the time, and I'm not exaggerating, 60% of the time, I have no idea what that person is even saying the words are neat, and it sounds really cool. But when there's a recording that you can reference, and then you can line up what they're saying, I have no idea what they're saying. It's, I just don't i don't understand. You know, I don't understand a lot of the references that they're making the comparisons that they're making, you know, it's like that. I just, I just don't get it. It's like It's like they don't want to share the music with you. I love people that are so passionate about something that they just want you to to hear it like oh my god, you got it. You like that? You got to hear this. You got to hear this. If you're a fan of this person, you have to hear this because you're gonna love it. Other than and the opposite version of that is Oh, so you're No, this band, what's your favorite record? There's and you say something's like, Oh, well, you know, mine is this one. I mean, like, Well, I haven't heard that one before as well. It was their first record, they only released on cassette, there's only 300 copies. And like, dude, if you really were a fan of that band, and that's your favorite album, the proper response to, you know, in that conversation is, Oh, my gosh, if you haven't heard this, I have it. And I want to share it with you. Because if you love them, like I love them, you're gonna love this. Not that whole, like, Oh, well, if you don't understand this reference, then, you know, I can't help you. It's your job to help me. That's what you do your critic Help me. Help me figure out what I'm listening to. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Well, think about critics sometimes, too, is they? They're just like any other person as far as when you fall in love with the band, sometimes you stay in that era of the band? Sure, you know. Sure. And so they, they, for example, for me, like the strokes or Interpol, their first albums. Yeah, I love way more than the new stuff. Yeah. And I just, it's one of those, like, even though I know it's dumb to think this way. Like, I want to stay with that version of the band. Yeah, whatever they're doing now. Drew Kennedy: Yeah, cuz, but they have to evolve, you know, they evolved to the point where they made that record that you loved. And then, you know, it's like, this is a terrible analogy. But I'm shooting from the hip, it's, I mean, it's like that really sweet memory, you have that high school girlfriend, and you know, what they're doing with their life and who they've become as an adult. And you know, that the two of you would never have worked as a couple over the long term, but you still have that really sweet memory of them. And it doesn't matter, you know, who they turned into does not diminish the feelings that you felt when you were with them at that specific time in your life. And music is made by people and people evolve people change people, mature people, you know, follow artists especially follow different things that interest them that that ignite their artistic flame. And, you know, I, it's really tough to be a completist there's only a couple bands like that, like, I can listen to every Beatles record that they ever put out. Yeah, but they only existed for seven years. That's also like a Yeah, it's just such a good dance. That's right. But you know, but like, it's Thomas Mooney: hard to be more of a Rolling Stones fan, Drew Kennedy: it is like it is because they're still going on tour, and you're like, Oh my God, my grandfather is trying to be a rock star. Look, this is weird. I, you know, I get it. But the good thing is, you always have that record. And yes, you wish that that band continued to they evolved with you, their their music changed as you changed. You know, like, we talked earlier, before we were doing this about, you know, guys that just do the spring break song and they never evolve past that. You know, eventually, age is going to age you out of being able to have an audience, because a 40 year old singing about spring break is just flat out creepy. Yeah, you know. So eventually, the kids that want to hear the spring break song is not going to want to hear from you, old man, I want to hear from somebody that looks like me. So, you know, there's that thing. And you can say like that. They just found what worked and stayed there. And I get it, but that's what they did. Versus like, well, I really loved what they did when I was 21. And they changed into something else. And I changed it did something else. But we'll always have that record at 21. Thomas Mooney: Well, and that's I think, why so many old rock stars. They end up making like a country record when they get older. Right? Because you know, they now part of me always also thinks like, Oh, well, they're just pandering to towards an audience. Yeah, they know that like country. Fans still buy right? Yeah, they're still buying. So there's that aspect, but I think like also just because you can't I don't know you can't be Led Zeppelin for me. You can't You can't be you know, you can't have any Guns and Roses. Yeah, Drew Kennedy: yeah, look, look at how fast that burns out. You know, they burned so hot for you know, it just like anything. it'll burn itself out just as fast. But um, you know, I, I always go back and forth on like the, oh, he went to Nashville and made a country record thing like, on one hand, it can clearly be a money grab. But on the other hand, this country songwriters are songwriters in Nashville, that's the last spot for lyricists. Like that's really the last, you know, you have like, bands like Weezer, or whoever, who always have their specific sound and their lyrics are always there. And you can always tell who's writing it and where it's coming from. But if you listen to mainstream pop music from LA or New York there's not saying the lyrics don't make sense, but the lyric is almost like the last part like Okay, well let's throw this in there. As long as there's a hook cool, but the rest of it like we We're just filling syllables that go with the meter of the song. That's what we're doing. And I think a lot of those older artists who started by writing their own stuff and came up there was still craft behind. You know, like we're talking Aerosmith, Steven Tyler doing the country record. There's still a craft behind the writing of those songs, especially those first couple of Aerosmith records, where they worked with a lot of other songwriters, the craft is still there, and you can't go anywhere else and get that craft like you can get it with songwriters in Nashville. So sometimes I wonder if it's a cash grab, or sometimes I wonder if it's just somebody really missing, working with bards working with poets? Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Like, I know Elvis, Elvis Costello has done some Yeah, country stuff. And I know I, I can't remember where I was. I was driving down to Fort Stockton with my grandma. And I had the radio on and Elvis Costello was singing like a Hank Williams song. And she was like, Elvis Costello Yeah. Drew Kennedy: You too. You too. Elvis. Yeah. And that's somebody that doesn't need to do that. But you know, I think the cultural beginning beginnings of a lot of those especially earlier country music recordings. Something like Elvis Costello has to have that have that introduced to him. He didn't grow up with that music being a part of his culture. And just because it wasn't a part of his culture to begin with, doesn't make those songs any less powerful. And so when Elvis Costello hears I'm so lonesome I could cry or you know, any of those Hank Williams songs that had you? That's an impactful song, and anybody's going to feel it. If they just didn't grow up with it. So I can totally see the attraction of like, hey, like that. That's powerful song. Yeah, the attractions doing a country record. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I don't know that. That's the fun thing about talking about all this stuff is you and I never have to have an answer. We just talk. Yeah, just be like, everything ends up with I don't know. Yeah. Thomas Mooney: You know who Chuck Klosterman is, yeah. Okay. Well, he was rereading this book. I can remember which one it was. But he's, he's talking about advanced theory. Have you heard about this? I don't think so. or read this in one of his. Okay. Advanced theory is like, I guess it was a theory. This is like maybe 20 years old? Sure. where like, there's only you know, 1%, or like half of 1% of people who, in the art world make something truly genius. Yeah. And how? I guess his example was like, Lou Reed was advanced. Yeah. 99% of the population sometimes would not get what he was doing. Right. And it was just because it's so genius, that it took time for them to grow on it or something. Yeah. And this whole theory is very, very, very pretentious. And, sure, all this kind of bullshit with it. But he was saying, you know, that Neil Young was not, he's not considered advanced, just because whenever he first started out, he didn't he didn't have any parameters to work in. He was always this. I'm doing whatever. I care about whatever I want. And so it has to do with like, I guess, being self aware. Yeah. In a lot of ways. Yeah. What, like your intentions of making an album are? And like, I guess I go, I was talking to a buddy about this was, who are some advanced bands? Who are the advanced artists have right now? Yeah. And, you know, it's really hard to come up with a list as far as because, first off, I don't even know if this is a real thing. Like, I know, like, it's it's a theory and all this kind of stuff. And it's but like, there's I guess like he was closer, he was talking about, like, the killers being anti advanced, because everyone gets to killers. Yeah, like everyone gets what some, say, like the Beastie Boys, and not saying that they're making bad music or anything like that. But they're just not geniuses at making Drew Kennedy: sure it well, you know, the interesting thing about all those qualifiers is that, number one, a band or an artist can sit down and say like, well, we're going to do with this record. So we're going to be genius. Yeah, this, this record is just gonna be my genius record. Because that's for everybody else to decide. Yeah, but the cool thing about discussing theories like that is there might be an advanced band to chuck Klosterman. Yeah, but it's just to chuck. Yeah, you know, he's the only one that gets to decide how advanced they are. Whereas I might hear a band and say like, oh, man, well, I listen to this because I came up as a percussionist and if you listen to the rhythms that are underlaid in this track, it is as complex as you could imagine. And that is advanced and that Could be a killer song. I don't know. I'm first of all, not a percussionist. Yeah. But what's great is everybody can, can put together their list of those advanced people. Yeah. And it's just, you know, it doesn't get coffee maybe Thomas Mooney: one of his examples also in the book is like, Radiohead. If Radiohead may makes a new album, that's really, really great, but it's just all like in different drone sounds. Yeah. Well, that's just, we expect Radiohead to do that. Right. But if they made like a blues album, that would be advanced. Because one, no one would see it coming. Most people probably wouldn't like it at first, and then it would be only it'd be years later that people go you know, that that blues record by Radiohead was really good. That's insane. Drew Kennedy: Yeah. Like, think about it. Is that like, if we're talking Weezer is that like Pinkerton? Like that was their second record, and everybody hated it? Yeah. And everyone's like, this is pretty much the greatest thing you've ever done. Like, I remember in high school, you hated Thomas Mooney: that. Speaking of like, album reviews, yeah. Rolling Stone hated that record, Drew Kennedy: of course. But then the in the same issue, Rolling Stone loved the first Britney Spears record. So you just like, wait, if you gave Britney Spears, four out of five stars, and you gave Sergeant Pepper's four out of five stars, are you saying that those are equally as important culturally? Are you are you saying that those those things completely line up the same way? Like it's really like that's it goes totally back to the criticism thing? It's impossible. Thomas Mooney: Hey, we're not open right now. But, uh, as far as like, examples of today, one of the ones I mentioned was, like Waylon Jennings doing the highwayman. Yeah. doing any albums with Willie Nelson. That's a that's, that's, I guess, over learning. People think it's advanced, but it's really not right. But Waylon Jennings doing that EP with all 97. Right, is advanced. It's just, that's, I mean, that's more time than I care to consider. Yeah, Drew Kennedy: what all these things are And guys, like, check. I mean, you know, he's an undeniably intelligent person. But kind of all that time that you spend developing that theory. I just wasn't developing it. But Tim explaining it. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's just too far. Like don't this is so it's so much. He gets so much Giuliana music, like, we can argue about who's a better guitar player stuff. But once you start getting into what's expected and what's not expected, and how that plays on a level of genius, as far as the spectrum goes, that just takes all the fun out of it. Yeah. It's like somebody arguing about what's a better $90 glass of wine. It's like, you know what, they're both gonna be pretty damn good. Thomas Mooney: I think like, there's aspects of it that are interesting to think about. But like, I think the more I think I probably would have loved this theory when I was like, 20, right? Oh, man, it was changed your life. But right now, I'm just going and you know, but I do think it is funny and weird whenever artists become characters of themselves, right. You know, and I think that there's an aspect of that, with this with this theory is like, I always wonder, like, if Bob Dylan knows who the real Bob Dylan is, you know, that kind of Drew Kennedy: tie? No, I and I always wonder if, if it's like any, even a different level of that. If Bob Dylan knows who the Bob Dylan is that we all know, like, you know what I mean? Because he's so smart. And then you see him doing a commercial where he talks to a computer, and that's cool. I mean, look, commercials, the new way to make money. I mean, I understand. But it's like, does Bob is Bob, is this all tongue in cheek with Bob? Or does he not know what we all think of him? Of course, he knows what we think of him. Why? You know, like, this is Bob Dylan doing a Victoria's Secret commercial? This is the joke on us, or is the joke on him? I can't figure it out. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Well, the thing. What I'm always wondering is if Bob Dylan's in his house, looking in the mirror, and like just staring into his eyes and being like, seeing if he can see into us so that kind of thing. loves that idea. You know, just like what's in there, Bob. Drew Kennedy: You just wanted to be a cartoonist. And look, he was you know, something. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny to think about all this stuff like my, my dad hates when artists at an award show we'll talk about politics or something, like, just get up on stage and use it as a vehicle to say, this is what I think is right. He hates it. And I was finally like, like, Dad, you know, that's what you want your artists to do. It's like why I don't care what this guy he didn't even graduate from high school. I said, No, this is someone who is crazy. did great art their whole lives by following their gut instinct, I am going to be this person, I'm going to do this. And it's worked. And we as human race has received incredible amounts of art. It's been great like great art that has changed our lives. Because these people trusted in themselves and followed their their hunches and their gut. And they delivered on this thing, whether it was a great piece of acting, whether it was a great book, whether it was a great record, whatever. That's how these people became these great performers that enrich our lives. And, of course, they're gonna get up on stage and say, like, Well, shit, I got so rich and famous by following my gut. And this is what I think politically should be happening. So I'm just gonna do what I always do and say it if they didn't have that complete lack of awareness to think like, Well, maybe not everybody cares. They wouldn't have made great art in the first place. Because that's, that's the quality that made them. So you just have to realize, like, I can love the art, but I don't have to love the artist, or at least the artists politics, like you can take one without the other. It's like when they get up there and talk. It's like, go get a snack in the kitchen. It doesn't matter. You know? Thomas Mooney: Yeah. I don't know where that can do you. Do watch a lot of the the award show Drew Kennedy: sometimes from home? Yeah, but I don't go out of my way to do it. Or in this is talking about pretentious. Sometimes when I have friends that are like Lori McKenna at the Grammys, yeah, you know, or the ACM for girl crush. I love Laura. You know, she's one of my favorite humans on Earth. And so I watched that. Yeah, because I have a rooting interest, which is insane. But I don't go out of my way. And I certainly don't engage in the, you know, the immediate grading of all performances are like, Oh, this guy got snagged or what? Yeah, I mean, it's all it's an advertisement. You know, Thomas Mooney: I love the the actual I do love the, the Twitter. It's amazing. That's, that's what I watch. That's what I it's not necessarily that I care who's winning. And a lot of the stuff I'm like, I mean, I don't Yeah, it doesn't really matter to me, right? Like, do I have an opinion on who should have won? Sure, but I'm not gonna, like, get angry about it. Right. But, uh, I do love like the the Twitter, like, live tweeting aspect. It's amazing. Drew Kennedy: It's amazing to watch. And it's amazing, too, that we can do used to have to have like Grammy watching parties. And to get that reaction, you'd have to have like, 50 people in a room. Now we have the globe, in our rooms, and we can just be like, Oh, yeah, that guy's gonna regret saying that tomorrow. Or, you know, yeah, it's really interesting. But you know, it's awards. You don't make art for awards. You don't make art for pat on the back you make because you have to. And if you get snubbed and don't get invited, big deal. Yeah, just happens. Go make another great record. And don't worry about it. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. But always love is the there's always at least a handful people who think this award show up this last year is the worst award show ever. And that every live performance was horrible in any collaborations done was downright The worst thing to ever happen. And I'm like, you don't have to watch you know, like, Drew Kennedy: I know, like, not a requirement. Yeah, it's Yeah, I know it. But it's always that but I think it's kind of funny. Like in my day. This is how great this was. Okay, Thomas Mooney: I thought like, I guess it was the Grammys. I thought the Grammys it was actually as far as the live performances went Drew Kennedy: what I caught it, but I thought it was fine. Yeah. far I enjoyed it more than I've enjoyed performances in the past. Yeah. But, you know, Thomas Mooney: I'd rather watch a baseball I thought it was funny to like, just Kendrick Lamar made a whole lot of people uncomfortable with themselves. And it was. That's all right. I like when that stuff happens. I thought it was really really yeah, Drew Kennedy: like when do your immediate reaction sitting by yourself? Is it like, draw your yourself like, in closer have a ball as he's talking? Like, I don't know. Is he saying that? I kind of like that. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. So yeah, you're a baseball guy. I am a baseball guy. Yeah. So baseball is coming up. It is. Drew Kennedy: The Phillies are my team, that my team since birth, and they're having a really great spring training, like, the Phillies are going to be awful this year, they're probably gonna be the worst team in baseball. But they've won like eight of their last 10 games in spring training. And they've looked pretty good. And so it's just enough for me to start thinking like, well, maybe they're gonna surprise a lot of people. Like maybe they actually might, this might be a miracle. They might be pretty good. I know. They're gonna be awful. But like, Damn, if that game doesn't hook you like that, like, you can start off the season and lose, you know, 15 of your first 20 games. But as soon as you win three games in a row after that, you're like, oh, Maybe they turn it around, like, up until, you know, maybe like, they start mathematically eliminating people. There's still that thing in the back of your head is like, man, I gotta go on a run. Yeah, they're gonna do it. Thomas Mooney: Now are you are you? Okay? Basketball is my sport. Yeah. And you know, that's 82 games. Yeah. And for the most part, I can catch 75% of those chairs. How many baseball games you will you watch part, at least parts of Drew Kennedy: I will watch. I will watch or listen to 95% of the games of a season of affiliate season. Yeah. The only time it gets in the way is when I have because I travel so much. You know, when I'm driving, I can listen to the game on my phone. And then when I'm home, I have the packet so I can watch the Phillies game. But the only time I can't is when you know if I'm playing a Saturday night, and the Phillies are on the west coast. And the game starts at like 930 Central time. And so do I. Yeah, but for the most part, man, I get every I listen. I far prefer baseball on the radio than baseball on TV. I just really liked the theater of the mind with a game and but yeah, I'm pretty. I'm pretty hardcore about baseball. Yeah. Yeah. And I like basketball too. But yeah, I like college, the college game far more than the pro game, just because of the tournament. You know, Thomas Mooney: let's see. That's why I don't like the college game. Because I think like the regular season doesn't mean anything. Like no regular season does. But like watching 30 the first 30 college basketball games doesn't mean anything. It's like, not until Yeah, I mean that things get real. Drew Kennedy: Yes or No, but you can say the same thing with the NBA game. How many teams get playoffs? You know, like, it's yesterday? I don't look at. I don't look at the seasons in basketball. I don't necessarily focus on what the season is. But I don't think there's a better sporting event in America than the first two days of the NCAA tournament, when all sorts of crazy stuff is happening when they were for a minute a 16 team is beating a one team. Yeah, you got four channels. You know, like the 15 seat knock somebody off and there's always your buddies. Like I called that like you did not. You know, where's Pepperdine? You don't even know where? Pepperdine? Yes. You know, it's in Washington. No, it's in California. You don't even know you didn't call. Okay. And if you did, you were just it's like my wife, betting on the Kentucky Derby. I'm betting on that team. Because I like that guy. Because I like his the color of his silks, like, yeah, betting for the Pink Guy. That's not that's not an actual way to do that. But it's fun. It's so much fun. Yeah, Thomas Mooney: those first two days. It's amazing. It is great. Cuz really, you don't have to, I mean, I know a lot of people have to go to work and everything. But you can slip in Drew Kennedy: totally. And even like CBS Sports a couple years ago, like release this thing. Like, you could stream the game. And there was a button like on the bottom right hand corner of the screen, where if your boss was walking by, you could click it and a spreadsheet wouldn't pop up. And it was like it was like a static screen. But it was like a screenshot of a screen with a spreadsheet on it. So like even like gigantic corporations are trying to make it easier for you to you know, be lazy at work and watch basketball. I think there's nothing more American than that. It's just great. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, what's a like, What's the last thing musically that you that you became obsessed with? That you heard this guy or gal with this band, and you just were like, I have to check out everything, man. Drew Kennedy: There's a guy who performs under the name field report. And his last record was called mera golden. And it blew my mind my friend Cody turned me on to it. And this guy's a total folk singer, you know. And I've looked at YouTube videos of him and he just performs like I do just a guitar, and singing and the songs are really well crafted. But it's like, they went into the studio with this record and said, and this is I'm sure 100% wrong. But this is how I hear it. said like, Alright, I've got all these ballads. And I don't want to change the tempo, but I don't want them to feel like ballads. And so there's all this stuff going on under the tracks of the songs that are just so, so interesting to me, sonically. And his lyrics are fantastic. He's one of those lyricist. I'm a real big seeker of Truth in lyrics. And this guy, I don't even understand half of the stuff he's saying, which is really out of out of my norms for me to like, but it's so beautiful. Like the lines are just sounds like I don't know what that means, but it really sounds great. Yeah. So I really loved that record. It was I mean, I listened to that record. Probably every day for about three months. Yeah, and I got it and I he's pretty unknown. He He's a Milwaukee guy, I think and I haven't really come across many other people that are hip to it, but I think it's fantastic. Yeah, yeah. Thomas Mooney: That's one of those things too is. You know, you do get obsessed with certain artists. And so then your friends were like, Hey, have you heard of blah, blah? Are you still have you still have not heard of? Yeah, heard this record by I told you about this record? Yeah, times, right. I still haven't listened. What's your problem? It's like you're missing out, man. Drew Kennedy: Yeah, you get and it's funny. The great thing about our scene is when somebody like that comes around, the word spreads quickly, you know, like, there's nobody in our scene that really is in our scene, that is gonna say, like, No, I've never heard of john Moreland. You know. But with somebody like that, who's not connected to the Americana folk country scene in the southwest, you know, there's still those, they're still out there. Yeah, like, you know, but I, you just all of a sudden, in one week, everybody was like, have you ever heard of john Moreland? Like, yeah, like he's a great Yeah, it's great. But it just happened. Like all of a sudden, everyone it's undeniably great. And it's, it's, it's in our neck of the woods. Yeah, the Oklahoma guys are killing it. Not to be Thomas Mooney: you know, super hipster here. But have you heard any of Morton's old stuff? Drew Kennedy: Yeah, of course. He like the more rock stuff. Yeah, the heavier stuff? I've heard a little bit of it. Yeah. Thomas Mooney: To me. That was like Gaslight anthem. Kinda. Drew Kennedy: I thought it was cool, too. I mean, I just, I, my listening habits tend more towards what he's doing now. But yeah, I mean, you know, the guy's a badass writer, period. Yeah. I love like, listening to some of his stuff. And I came the realization like, I feel like he is on a mission to personally hurt my feelings. And I really love that, you know, like, he listens to like, Oh, this cannot be any more sad. And I like somebody that has that ability. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. But those Oklahoma guys right now killing it. Like john Moreland. JOHN fullbright. Have you heard the new parking rule? So Drew Kennedy: I haven't heard the new parking lot. That's the name I was just trying to think of. But when I heard truckstop is a truckstop. Guy. What's his truck stop gospel gospel when I first heard that, I was like, This is incredible. And so he's like, yeah, the kids like 18. Like, we should kill him. That's fair. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those guys are all. And it's great, man. It's that. That's that attitude that I moved to Texas for 12 years ago. It's not I don't find it in Texas anymore. They're all doing it. They're like, screw a tour bus. I can't give, I could care less about that. I have to say this. This is burning me up, and I have to get it out. And the the abilities are there. I mean, the the talent level, and the craftsmanship is undeniable. Whereas a lot of the feelings that I moved down here for now, it's like, you know, it's turned into a mini Nashville, and I love Nashville. I'm not, you know, I'm not disparaging. So there was two different things. There was what Nashville did and what the Texas scene did. And I liked the rawness of what the Texas scene did. And now it's just trying to copy the Polish of what's happening in Nashville. And I that's somebody that's recording a record in Nashville, like, that's me saying that, Thomas Mooney: yeah, two things. I think, like one why those Oklahoma guys are doing great things is because and I may be wrong with us, but they they have a deeper connection to like Woody Guthrie, and, like, folk folk singer. Right? Not necessarily. frontman. Drew Kennedy: Yeah, I think I figured it out. Like, raise your kid hardcore, super strict Baptists. Yeah. until they're 16 and then hand them a guitar, a playboy and abala jack daniels and say, okay, you're out, go figure. Go figure out the world now. That's like, you know, there's there's so much of that dichotomy of strict religion versus freedom in human beings in those songs. Thomas Mooney: What What they do is like, legit Southern Gothic stuff Drew Kennedy: for sure. I mean, but they paint it up because they're great. melodically it's great you know, when I when I think about a lot of that Southern Gothic Gothic stuff, it doesn't have the the lifts that these songs do it but but texturally and lyrically you're absolutely right. Thomas Mooney: And also, I guess on the the whole Texas versus Nashville thing I think like that is such a it's such bullshit. It's so but but it sells records. Drew Kennedy: It sure does. I mean, there's a there's a there's definitely validity to the theory of pointing a finger at your competition and saying that they're not good. I am. Yeah. People like when people choose sides and they'll follow somebody you know. Yeah. But, but not man that that whole thing is, is is propagated by three different people, people that needed to sell a record people that were spurned by the machine up there and came back With a chip on the shoulder, and people that have never been there and just hear everybody saying it. Cuz I think Nashville has the greatest songwriters on earth living in its city limits. Yeah. And I mean, it's, you know, people were like, Oh, yeah, well listen to songs on the radio. The songwriters aren't getting the songs recorded. They don't have what I have, which is, I can make my own records and I tour and I have that outlet. A lot of those guys, men and women are songwriters. And they feed their family by getting songs recorded. The same person that writes the dumbest song you possibly heard in the last year, can sit down in a room with somebody else and write a completely brilliant would stand up to anybody's scrutinies. As far as lyrically intelligent music goes, they're just, that's what they do. So I've spent a lot of time writing up there recently, and I am in awe of the talent as far as writers go up there. So I will never say a bad thing about that. Yeah. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Well, I mean, I just think like, if people thought about it, just for five minutes, they would realize that there's just as much broke entry happening in Texas. Drew Kennedy: It's even worse. That's the thing. It's like, we want to do that what that feels like, but we can't even figure out how to make our dumb lyric. sound that good. That's what they're doing. And I just don't understand it. Like, when is it cool to posture yourself down as a thinker as a person? Like, if that's not what you do, if you can't do lowest common denominator dumb, then God, don't do it. Nobody aspires to do that, do what you do and do it. Well. Don't try to be this other thing. If you want to try and be guy Clark, I'll give you a pass. Because we're all trying to be guy Clark, if that's what you're going for, I support you. And, man, if you get there, I'm gonna be your biggest fan. But when you shoot for something that's already such low hanging fruits like, Man, you're never going to get that year your life back as a person that's supporting this art that you've made in quotation marks art. Life's too short to do that. And if if that attitude never gets me a tour bus or a merge guy, oh, well, that's okay with me. Yeah, I drive my Prius. And so my merchant, totally happy doing it, because I get to get to just try to make a record that I'm proud of, you know? Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Okay. So, on this new record, what is the most what word is on this record that you're most proud of? word fitting in on a fitting in on a song? Drew Kennedy: that's a that's a really good question. What word? One word that's? Well. There's a, there's a couple of phrases in on the record that I really like. Honestly, I always get this really interesting sense of joy when I sing the song called Jackson. And it's all about like, relationships and airplanes from a younger person's perspective, but told by an older person looking back on that stuff. And this is the last second the last line of the song, like Time flies, but I still think of you. Every time I sing that I'm like, yeah, you really turn that one into something good. You'd have to hear the whole song. No, I've heard it. I always get a kick out of that. But you know, there's a song on the record that has the word serendipity in it. That's kind of fun to fit in there. Yeah. I don't know. That's funny. I never really boil it down to that. I'm really proud of the what the song say as a whole. I guess we go serendipity. Yeah, there's lots of syllables for one word, yanked into a song. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I think what a lot of songwriters. Either they do. As far as words go, yeah, diction. Yeah. They're either really, really great at keeping it real short and simple, where everyone can understand. And it's like, oh, you sing the way people talk. And you hear that? Or it's like, you know, they use you know, $5 word Yeah. And dollar words to describe things that are normal, but in in ways that maybe not everyone loves hearing. Yeah, Drew Kennedy: I'd say the first one is way harder to do to be like Billy Joe shaver is the poster. Yeah, guy for that like to say so much. with so little. As far as the language goes, that's the hardest thing in the world to do. And he's a master at it. And everybody, myself included that wants to try out a $5 word. If we could have figured out a way to say with a 10 cent word, we would have done it but it's just so hard, and it seems counterintuitive, but it's so hard to be plain spoken and poetic. Powerful Yeah, that's the hardest thing to do in songwriting. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. The the one time I interviewed Billy Joe shaver the funniest thing I thought about the entire conversation was that so much of it was all shacks. You know, I'm, I'm just writing songs, right. But also the, the added on part God put me on earth to write songs, right. So yeah, like this balance of Drew Kennedy: Oh shucks and divine intervention in all of our lives because of his presence. Yeah. Yeah. Funny how that works. That's like, Billy just not very aw shucks moment if God put you in front of me to sing that song on purpose, you know? Yeah, I think you know, that's, that's, that's, that's a charming thing. Yeah. To really, I mean, he's, I think he's a genius. He's advanced. He is he's advanced. We can agree that he's advanced. for someone to be advanced and have the aw shucks thing. I think that's kind of sweet. Even though we can all see through it. But don't I take that back? Really, Joe? We don't. Thomas Mooney: I doubt he'll listen to this. I don't know just in case he does. I don't think he will. Because during this interview that I had with him. He said he listened to just a Spanish music. That's crazy. Yeah, because he couldn't. He didn't like anything on the radio. Drew Kennedy: I totally believe that I opened for him a couple of times, when I was younger. And a couple years, like maybe six or seven years ago in San Angelo, I opened for him. And after the gig, he was like, oh, man, you young guys are all good looking and talented. I should just shoot all y'all. And I was like, ah, shut up. Billy Joe, you're the legend. You know, five years later, he shoots again a face for telling him to shut up. I was like, Oh my God. He said he's gonna shoot me. And then I told him to shut up. Like that could have been his closest I will ever be to sudden in permanent depth. Like they could have been, of course death is permanent. But Thomas Mooney: yeah, yeah. That's pretty fair. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's good. To end on right there. That's why I'm still here. We're coming up on an hour. All right. I don't know if you want to keep on talking Drew Kennedy: to you know me. I'll talk to you for five hours. And that's probably the last thing you want to do. Oh, I Thomas Mooney: don't care. Drew Kennedy: Yeah, we'll call it I really enjoyed doing this man. I like I like talking with you. And I don't know how many people recording a podcast and a Daiquiri bar that is not open to the public right now. But I can say for certain no daiquiris had been consumed and the recording of this podcast. Yeah. Pretty good. All right.