019: Zack McGinn of Dolly Shine

Thomas Mooney: Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 19 of new slang podcast. I'm Thomas Mooney. I'm the editor in chief of new slang here in Lubbock. And you know earlier earlier this week, news came out that Stephenville Stephenville based Delhi shine is going to be disbanding breaking up. They have a little run shows probably going through the end of September. But after that, you know, they're going to be moving on to other projects. I know there's a whole lot of talk about them carrying on as follows Americans, which was a side project of jarrods we'll see what happens here. I mean, I thought Dolly shines last record was their their best overall, you know, project they've done that they they were really one of these up and coming bands. I guess you could still say that everyone involved is still in this up and coming phase though. And anyway, so I guess about a month back, we did a podcast with Zack of dolly shot. We were going to be running it pretty soon anyways. So it was just one of those. Hey, let's just go ahead and do it this week. While it's still semi relevant. Anyways, yeah, we did this podcast this interview at blue light. I guess the last time they played here and talk about the making of that new record and talking about a lot of like, you know, Zach's history as far as where he came up musically, all that kind of good stuff. I'm sure everyone in the band is still going to be doing music things. We'll just be seeing them in different under different monitors, I guess. One of the things on the horizon for us and blue light pretty soon is going to be the songwriter competition. That's going to be getting started. Monday, September 12. There's going to be five preliminary rounds. Basically every Monday after then for the next six weeks is going to be part of the songwriter competition if you're a singer songwriter, and you're wanting to get involved, know how to sign up all that kind of stuff, go to new song loving, calm, find the article on it, and that's where all the information is going to be on how to sign up and get I guess technically get registered for the songwriter competition, it's gonna be a lot of fun this year. I'm not sure if I can really go in and like say who's involved in the the competition as far as judges go, but it's gonna be some really big names and we're really excited about having them involved having them be not just like judging the competition, but it feels like all the one everyone who's involved is wanting to be part of it in a bigger way really share their knowledge on on what they've done as far as being songwriters and artists and kind of like, I guess, be a little bit more involved in that area. It feels like and we're really excited about everything like that. So again, if you're wanting to sign up, go to new slang, loving, calm, and all the details will be there. We still have open spots for every week, of the prelim rounds. So yeah, sign up. Anyways, we'll go and get on to this podcast with Zack so here we are. Okay, so I really don't do an intros on here or anything but Okay, so this week I was out in Big Bend, which is kind of like you record new records very West Texas very big bendy. Zack McGinn: Heck yeah, man. Big Bend area is pretty cool. I love that place. And you were telling me about I guess last time we did that interview we were saying about how rattlesnake really kind of came out of you driving down there one time and you really worked on that song. I guess the inspiration of that song came from going down there. Yeah, man. Just the there's a certain romance about West Texas you know, if you will. And you know, I think as a songwriter you really can't help but to be drawn to that kind of stuff. Or at least I am you know, it's kind of always you know, had that kind of effect on me. Well, a lot of the sound gets into the rest of the record. It feels like the you guys really did try to make it sound as much like West Texas much of a I guess there's like, more desolation, more barren pneus to the record versus the last few records have been more or they feel like they've been driven More about going to the bar, not necessarily going to the bar, but like, the scenes around a bar. That makes sense, right? Yeah. Um, I think rattlesnake was probably one of the first songs we actually had written for this record. And then Jared had snakeskin boots and that really kind of fit along with this whole vibe. And then, you know, we didn't really intentionally try to write the record like that per se, but I think it just kind of bled over into it. And, you know, Thomas Mooney: what, what's like the strangest thing you guys did on this new record like that you've never done before. Anything that you just thought was gonna be going off the rails and then just put it back into Oh, man, I don't I don't think there was anything strange with this record. We just experimented on keeping this record more stripped down and not so polished. Not so many, you know, crazy noodling guitar and fiddle parts, we wanted to more show more. So make this a record, you know, about the band, you know, as a whole. I'm trying to show off certain parts. Yeah. You know, if you look at the liner notes of this record, there's more songwriting credits. You know, it's kind of divvied up between you and Ben. And Jared obviously has a song and I can't remember who else there's another somebody. Yeah, a friend of mine, Taylor Davis says, Yeah, on this record, and Taylor is such a great songwriter from South Texas, and he doesn't really, you know, do a whole lot within the music scene, but I've just always felt like his stuff was, uh, you know, so good that I need to be showcased. So I've made a deal with him that I'll cut one of his songs on every one of my records that I record. Yeah. And Isaac Hoskins wrote hitchhiking and that dude is just such a gritty songwriter. I've been a fan of his stuff for a while. So we we try that song out live for a couple of months, and just just really liked. It didn't seem to fit the vibe for this record, too. So Charlie was telling me that you guys had asked about West Texas in my eye. Yeah. That would have fit in there as well, you know, yeah, I heard that song actually at the blue light for the first time. And I can remember just being kind of in all, you know, a bit and really kind of fell in love with that tune for the first time I heard it. Zack McGinn: Yeah. He was saying, you know, he told you, I really just want to get it out first, but I swear by that would have been a perfect song on that. On the album, you know, fit the themes. Really? Well. Yeah, yeah, definitely would have. But you know, that's a that's kind of how the dice was. Yeah. You ever think we'll get around to that? Or do you think it's kind of, Thomas Mooney: man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, keep throwing it out there to charleen just keep it in the back of his mind. And you know, maybe one day we'll pull it off the shelf and try to stick it on a record somewhere. Zack McGinn: Yeah, I think he's really open to, you know, people covering the songs, but he's also like any songwriter, he's like, Well, let me get this. Let me get my version out first, you know, yeah, exactly. You know, each song kind of becomes your baby. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a project of passion. And you know, you, you do this because you love and you can't help but fall in love with the tunes. Thomas Mooney: You guys are going to be going to be going to play with Josh tomorrow, right? Yeah, exploring. Fourth of July kind of stuff. What? What are the stuff you guys have on the Fourth of July? Zack McGinn: Man, really, this is our first first year in a long time to actually be off on the fourth per se. So tomorrow wraps up our week, you know, so it's gonna be really nice to be able to spend some time at home and do some family stuff. Yeah. You fire cracker guy, or you know, every now and then if they're there, I guess. Yeah. A couple of weeks back Dalton that texted me like, hey, do you know where I can get some firecrackers? And I was like it's I don't know it's may or I guess it was like late May or early June or something like that. That's No, I don't. Yeah, exactly. Had I guess you think like Dalton. Dalton is a firecracker guy. Nobody? I guess. You heard like he signed that record deal with my lightning rod. Yeah, man. I read it. That's what it was. Basically, he's wanting to pop some firecrackers. So yeah, I don't know, Marley. It feels like Dalton is the guy who knows all about the firecrackers. Exactly every damn thing. Are you obsessed with anything like that? Not really. I don't guess I have any weird crazy obsessions. Yeah, nothing. Thomas Mooney: Nothing. Nothing too dangerous. I don't know. I guess about the wireless thing I do is I've been dipping stuff since I was five. So you know, pretty bad. You ever tried to quit too many times? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First time I dipped was I was probably like 11 or something like that. And I got it from my dad. And of course he didn't know and you know A couple hours later had a fucking massive headache and never really tried it again. I was just like, okay, I smoke cigarettes for a long time, but eventually quit that as well. Yeah, Zack McGinn: I grew up around, you know, sell barns and cattlemen and stuff like that my whole life and all those old man always had it. Yeah. And, you know, I thought it was funny to give it to me then. And, you know, I never really thought it would stick and be a habit, but it did, unfortunately. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Yeah. Fourth of July. What are your plans? What are you doing? Are you a man, my wife is going to be on the road traveling out of the country with work. And so I'll probably just be home, I might go out and hang out at a buddy's house that I haven't seen in a long time. Just kind of lay low. Yeah, enjoy being off. Yeah. Zack McGinn: Thursday, or Thursday. The third Turnpike's gonna be up here. Not at blue light, but in town, so hopefully you're gonna go see them and do a podcast again. Heck, yeah. Never miss a good chance to go see those guys. Yeah. What's uh, you remember the first time you told him but Thomas Mooney: yeah. And I remember hearing him on the radio, you know, long before I ever saw him in his thinking. And it was right before that diamonds and gasoline record kind of blew up that first thing. So I was thinking man, these guys are you know, they're gonna do something really great. And Wes, our fiddle player and I we want a songwriting contest with 95 on the ranch in Fort Worth, you know, this is six years ago or longer even now. And but you know, the winter got to go do the ranch free music series on Wednesday nights and summer, for every week. And it just so happened you know that our week was the night the turnpike was playing. And I can remember just being you know, blown away by their lives that I thought they were doing. So many cool things that, you know, a lot of bands could aspire to do. Zack McGinn: Yeah. I remember. I think like they're one of their first shows, if not their very first show in Texas was here at the blue light. Really? Yeah. Of course, I wasn't here at that show or anything. But I remember their last show inside here. It was like sold out, like at 930 or something like that. I don't like it is still like a like an eight buck ticket to Yeah, you know, just one of those like, they just fucking blew up so damn fast. You know? Yeah, it seems like soon as that record kind of got out and took a little bit of flight. Bam, they just took off. Yeah, they the first podcast we did was with RC and Evan. And they were talking about that very, very first record they did, which was Bowser city. Yes. They were just, of course, that's out of print now. And they said they were basically, you know, recording it in somebody's house, you know, and how it was? No money was put into it. And you look back, they look back at it now. And that's why they ended up recording those two songs to put on the new record just because they're like, wow, I mean, the songs are the ages are a better version than what was given, you know? what's the what's the song that you would do that too? Is there anything like, you look back on or like, songs that you have that you wish, man, we should have done this? or? Yeah, you know, thinking back off of our very first record that we put out, there was a song called the show, and we don't even do that song live anymore. But I think it was just it was probably one of the better songs that I had written at the time and I can remember being, you know, extremely proud of it. But you know, listening back to that record, not too long ago, I think that song was extremely downplayed. So you know, wouldn't mind cut now and again, for sure. Thomas Mooney: Going back to term bike, one of my favorite things about them is that they they blend a lot of the roots rock, a lot of the singer songwriter, but also there's that pop sensibility, the same thing that really drove the those 90s country bands, you know, there's a lot of that in y'all too. Is that just something organic? That you guys kind of build or did you kind of did you guys look at guys like Turnpike and to kind of like base your base your Zack McGinn: sound on? You know, it was never planned. Just the sounds we were we were able to make you know, at the time when we first started making music that's kind of what started to shape us and of course, you know, we've listened to all those guys forever. But you know, I guess we just always tried to do our own thing and it just, you know, came out for what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, like this last record, I thought, I think it's it's your goals. Most solid piece of work. So far, it sounds great throughout. It has a very I guess like a, there's something that runs through the entire record that feels natural and warm. And, you know, I think like you guys have gotten to this point of, of, you know, I guess like a good creative center, you know, like, you guys are pushing y'all sound in a, in a direction that I feel, I guess like, I'm rambling now, but you're like, in a happy medium of like, the creative process. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, you know that that room to breathe record was, you know, it was more country and extremely planned out parts. You know, we spent a lot of time recording that record and it was very methodical record. And then all in the following record after that was, you know, I jokingly call it a garage rock record, because that's pretty much what it was, you know, we just pretty much just said, Oh, cool, we got these songs, you know, they're more rock and that we'd like to play live, let's just put them on a record. And with this one, yeah, I definitely call it a happy medium. We did, we did put some effort into this record, and some definitely some thought process, but we didn't, you know, try so hard to force something that, you know, didn't need to be we just kind of let this record end up being what it was going to be. So it was an extremely easy process. Yeah. Zack McGinn: Is it? Is it one of those things where, you know, you've been listening and, you know, listening to these songs for the last? I don't know how many months but, you know, recording them listening to masters, remixes of them? Just as little details? Are you tired of the songs now? Or do you have to like, just put that aside and go like, hey, yeah, this is a record that's new to everyone else. So, man, I think, Thomas Mooney: you know, I would think that every artist kind of gets to that point, where write up before the release time that you probably get a little tired of them. I know, I kind of did you know, just because we did spend so much time listening to these tunes, and over and over and over in the studio or getting mixes back. But then, you know, when we heard that finished product, and we started playing the songs live, you know, it just like a second wind. Yeah, just hit the spark again. So yeah. What's like the last thing y'all that you personally was writing? actually wrote the last two, I finished on finish the last one up, the day that I went and recorded it vocally. We'd already had the music at it mapped out, but it's a song called old flame. And, you know, it took me a little longer on that song because I was, uh, you know, trying to make a conclusion to a storyline. The song should have known this is the tail end of that song. And it's about, you know, a true relationship. And it was, you know, it was kind of tough to get through that one. But it was also one of my favorite songs on the record, just, you know, the whole process, just dealing with it and being able to close that chapter. Yeah. Speaking of should have known that has like some really great idiom use in there. Like, you know, the, you can't make a what's, what's the line about this stone? I can't squeeze blood from a stone. Yeah, that's a great idiom use chalk marks always done really? Well at that, I guess. Like, those old sayings, those old idioms like how did you Zack McGinn: man So actually, I actually had that can't squeeze blood from stone line for quite a while. And then I started writing this song, and, you know, it just kind of worked out really, really great in that course, and I've always wanted to use it. So yeah, kind of my opportunity to be able to, Thomas Mooney: yeah, I love that line. And, like, I think that's one of those things that also connects our music to our like, our grandparents music, you know, it's like, these old idioms, these old phrases, you know, to work those into the new. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've always, you know, spent time around the older older generation, you know, speaking of like, you know, my parents and grandparents, especially, you know, growing up but even now, more so, but, you know, if you just ever just listen to their conversations, you know, they actually say some really cool shit and if you can be able to, you know, pull a guy Clark you know, and be able to, you know, use some of those everyday old school sayings. Yeah, songs, you know, that a lot of people don't think about, but I think he's just a really neat way to be able to Yeah, like you said, bridge gaps between generations. Yeah. What are your parents? What are your family think about? You being in a band? You know, my mom's always been more cool with it, I guess. And my dad Yeah. You know, he's always wanted he's really really old school cowboy. And took him a long time to come around to the fact that I was gonna play music for a living you know, we kind of butted heads for several years. But now he's getting more with it. So yeah, yeah, the it's always we I guess like no one really thinks about the relationship between the parents you know, or like your your family being a strain as far as like being out on the road. Typically people when they think of strain relationships, it's, you know, the boyfriend girlfriend, the wife husband got it. Right. And, you know, when you first start now, it's the family, your parents thinking like, shit, don't waste your, you know, go to school, get something more. You know, that that you can fall back on? So? I don't know. It's weird. Yeah, it definitely is. You know, I think it took right. Probably about the first time that we played Billy Bob's was when my dad was like, Okay, yeah, so I guess you know, they're gonna do all right, maybe, yeah, what kind of music your parents listened to. Zack McGinn: And my mom listens to everything. And my dad is, you know, George Strait. And those guys if he listens to the radio at all. Yeah, we could go on a trip for hours. And that radio might not even be turned on. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. See, my dad was always hated like if I bought CDs, because he's like, well, you got a radio. You want to listen to music? listen to the radio. Yeah, it's like, well, this music doesn't come on the radio station. Like we only have one station in Fort Stockton. Like, what do you want? You know? It's kind of, I guess, like my dad's kind of old school in that way too, though. He? I guess he did get XM. himself. So I don't know. Zack McGinn: More Options, man. Yeah. You have XM? I do. Well, I you know, I just bought a new car not too long ago. So I've got that a three month trial thing going on. But for some I've ever really used XM. And I love it. Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff on Yeah, Thomas Mooney: what's your go to? Man? I don't know. Prime countries always usually pretty all right on there. It's got that 80s and 90s. And it's, you know, it's got some pretty great songs. Yes. It can't really go wrong. Zack McGinn: That's a I know that they can't charge by like just the you pick five stations kind of thing. But if you could just that's how I wish they were able to do it. Like I would just tell him hey, I want these five stations. You don't have to put the rest of them on. Don't have to charge me for the whole bundle. Just give me five. Yeah, prime countries really, really great. We were talking about that last week with even birds. Or no, no, I was I take that back. Chris King last week. Yeah, great station, your favorite 90s country guy or artists in general actually go with that. Thomas Mooney: Man, that's extremely hard. Actually, most of my favorite country music you know, came out of that timeframe button. Keith Whitley probably. Zack McGinn: Yeah. Yeah. Always think of like the I think like everyone can agree that george strait is probably like the best 90s guy and then like Garth Brooks. For some reason he doesn't get the same credit. But I would say like as far as like, popularity wise, like he was probably the second best, but it's always a great argument for that third guy. Oh, yeah. Like Alan Jackson. Who was their third guy be? I think like see, I guess like technically Keith Whitley died like 88 or 89. But I would probably say like Alan Jackson would be that third guy. Unless you're just saying artists then I think like Reba McIntyre's like right up there for three Yeah. Yeah, think about Brooks and Dunn. Yeah, I was gonna say like, they're right up there. You more Brooks are more done. How they more done? Yeah, probably lost and found. That's a good song. You guys ever done in the 90s country stuff, man. Thomas Mooney: So we're actually doing a Garth song right now. started as a you know, bullshit joke thing here. We were actually at blue light The last time we played here in town, and I was just kind of farting around with the chord progression and then we started playing the fiddle part and soundcheck and we just decided to throw it in the set. What is it? It's much too young. Oh, yeah. So man, that song has been kind of being received pretty well everywhere. Yeah, he's kind of just seems to go nuts. You know, whenever you play it so yeah. See, I love Garth Brooks. And I always feel like a Garth Brooks apologists or something like that defender. Because early on he was really great. You know? Yeah, much too young. That those first like two or three records. But then like, everyone always like, Oh, he's not a real country guy. He's like a Rena rock smashing guitars and shit. Which, yeah, granted, let him say what they will. I think he was badass. Yeah. Well, one of my arguments is, you know, he wrote some of the songs you know, that George Strait really can't say that. Yeah, you know, so. Yeah. He I think he probably had more to do with the songwriting aspect and the sound more than anyone else than most people give them credit for you know yeah Zack McGinn: yeah he man he was extremely bad ass and if you go back and look at some of those songs he really is actually pretty damn good songwriter Thomas Mooney: yeah I'm trying to think about listened to him in a while but I got self titled is really really good what's what else is on there? in pieces I know is probably my favorite that has like the red strokes on it. You know? Well, this is on their rodeos obviously. Great. Isn't it much too young. Your favorite? Garth Brooks? Zack McGinn: I'd say it's right up there. Man. He had he had a lot of great songs out of that timeframe that were good. That's probably Yeah, right up there. Top one or two? Thomas Mooney: Yeah. What? What do you think is like the most overrated 90 scan? Zack McGinn: most overrated 90s guy. Man, I don't know that's hard to say. What would you say on that? Thomas Mooney: I think it would have to be like one of those late 90s guys, like where that trans transition starts happening? Like the like the Tim McGraw or like Kenny Chesney, though like early Tim McGraw. Solid, man. Zack McGinn: Yeah, he actually had some some pretty solid stone when he first came out. And then after that kind of all the way. Yeah, when it's like Tim McGraw with a mullet. Bad mustache. That's like, good. Yeah. Keith, what you said though, as well. You know, a lot of people really can't touch those songs because his vocals are so damn good. It's kind of like a heart. I guess like his songs. You're kind of a unless you're like, incredibly great vocalist. They're kind of hard to touch. You know? Yeah, man. I always love them. I'll sing along with them in the car. But I would never touch one on stage just because I couldn't do it justice. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. What What's your favorite Whitley song? I would probably say I'm no stranger to the rain. That was always just kind of been one of my favorites. Yeah. I love I'm over you. Yeah. Great. So I mean, I could put that on repeat for, like an hour and not be Oh, yeah. angry, you know? Yeah, we'll, uh, you know, when was the first time you started writing songs? Like, what? What were you doing? Zack McGinn: I don't know, man. I was, I was in high school, and I got tired of playing everybody else's songs. And I, you know, kind of wanted to just start messing around and write my own. 16 maybe when I started really trying to write songs, and you know, and, you know, write stuff that made sense. And yeah. Yeah, I was probably about 1016. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, was it? Were you trying to, at that time trying to recreate other stuff like other people's? Were you like, I guess? Not copying per se. But like, were you trying to? Well, let me try and write a song, like, insert name here? Or were you trying to more get that like that teenage angst out? Probably a little bit of both, you know, I really didn't know how to write songs per se, or, you know, come up with my own chord progressions at the time. So yeah, of course, I think I modeled my, my first stuff, you know, laughter other artists. And then once I kind of started figuring it out a little bit was when I really started, you know, figuring out Hey, man, you know, this isn't this is an outlet, you know, I can say whatever the hell I want to. Yeah, you know, in these three to four minutes or whatever. Yeah. So that was when it became, you know, really cool to me was at that time, yeah. Did you show those to people? Or did you keep them to yourself? You know, probably the first few, I didn't show anybody. And then, as I got more comfortable with myself and my guitar, playing abilities, and felt like I wrote something, you know, that I was proud to show somebody that I kind of started, you know, getting a little more comfortable with the idea of, you know, let other people hear it. Zack McGinn: Yeah. You were the first time you showed somebody, anything. But well, I'm assuming like, probably those first few times playing is like, there's no critique, you know, no criticism. Right? Yeah. Um, I don't know, I was probably 16 or 17. Somewhere, probably more so when I was around 17. But you know, all that early stuff. I was just very shy about it. And, you know, I was just didn't really Feel like I was comfortable enough to get it out and show anybody anything like that? Thomas Mooney: Yeah. What do you Where do you go to school? I went to school in Mason, Texas. Okay. Was there anybody else doing anything like that? Was there a buddy or? Anybody who? Yeah, Zack McGinn: I had a cousin. My cousin Jake is two years older than me. And, you know, his dad is always played in bands, you know, are kept man around and you know, played a bunch of dancehall shows and stuff. So me and Jake, you know, when we were in high school, that was when we started jamming together, I would probably show him some stuff, you know, every now and then. And then we really started playing songs in. Yeah, so he was kind of the only other guy in town that was that was my age that was doing anything like that. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Something that. I guess, like, I've talked with, basically, everyone about was, for me growing up, I've never, it wasn't until, you know, out of high school, at least, that I realized that there's like, middle ground between being a musician, like, you don't have to be George Strait. You know, like, you might have to be George Strait, or, you know, completely broke, there's that middle ground of being a working band, at what point did you realize that, like, it was not just going to be, it could be something more than, than a hobby. But also, you didn't have to be selling out stadiums. You know, I was my, my freshman year in college, when, you know, I started trying to play gigs, you know, because I wanted to, but a lot, you know, out of necessity, because I realized, you know, to make a little extra money in college, and then I realized, Hey, you know, you can do these small gigs like this, and you know, there'll be a hat, there might be a handful of people out there when you know, you make a little money for your pocket and get a few of your songs out there. You know, and it's a way to, you know, at least get by for a little while. And then as we started growing a little bit and got a band put together, then I you know, realized, hey, yeah, you can you know, you can make a living doing this, and you don't have to be George. Yeah. You know, going to school and Stephenville Stephenville has a community of songwriters, you know, what was it like those first meetings, seeing people like, I'm sure, like, you saw Hussey and Serato, before you know, actually been being in the band, obviously. What were those, like those first seeing musicians around town and those open mics and shit like that was uh, you know, it was really cool, because obviously, coming from Mason, Texas, there wasn't a whole hell of a lot of that going on. And then to, to move to a college town where there's music, you know, a couple of nights a week, and not only just music, like bar shows, but man, there were open mic nights, you know, twice a week, every Wednesday and Sunday. And I found out about that, like the first or second week I was there at school. And so I started going and just remember being amazed. Because, you know, at that time, it was myself and Clayton Landy and and Ben and a guy named Logan Tucker and, you know, several other guys that were doing it. So, you know, if you wanted to get a spot, you know, you had to get there early. And it just blew my mind. How many guys you know, in one town were all writing songs and playing their own stuff. And, you know, that was when it probably became the most real to me. Yeah, you were the first time you saw six market, and you realize like, they're gonna be bigger than just local. Zack McGinn: Yeah, you know, I met Clayton right before six markets started. And I remember watching those guys and then I didn't see him play in on hang out with Clayton or whatever. And we jam but you know, and heard that they were doing some cool stuff and didn't see him, you know, for like, the first six months or a year that they were a band. And then I saw them right after Josh joined the band. And I think that was probably the time when I was like, holy shit. You know, these guys are gonna freakin do something huge. Yeah. And for the handful of the years that they were doing it, I think they probably made one of the biggest impacts on Texas country. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, I think you know, the first time I saw them. Actually, first time I heard them. I was like, Oh, this is kind of cool. It's not the greatest. Not the worst. But then seeing them live was really what sold me on him. It was like, Oh, shit, man. This is actually there's something not on that first record. That's in the show, you know? Of course, I guess. What's that second record? running on seven? Yeah. Like that's whenever they started. I think that's when they were able to, you know, get their feet underneath them and like, Oh, these guys are making strides. You know? Zack McGinn: Yeah, it was really cool and You know, Stephen Miller's community really got behind those guys from the start, I think they all saw the same thing we did, you know, there was just something special about those guys, you know, that you can always tell there's something different, you know about bands that that are going to go do something in bands that aren't, you know, and six market had whatever that that it factor was, you know, at the time they had it. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. I think that's also a testament to the band is that, you know, like the three main cogs of that band. You know, they've gone on and done other things, you know, you know, Josh Greenwood will now and obviously, like him and Ben being a producing team. Yeah, kind of thing. That's, uh, you know, those guys are young, you know, usually you don't get that. I guess much was publicity, in a way, I guess, like that much street cred has been producers for being so damn young, you know? But they're, I think in, you know, a decade from now, you go, yeah, those guys. We knew at all this entire time that they were gonna do great records for other people. Zack McGinn: Yeah, you know, Josh and Ben, just even from, you know, I met Josh in high school and could tell that guy had just an amazing ear for music. And when I met Ben, you know, it was the same kind of thing. So, and we were always messing around recordings and jumping in the studio and trying to do stuff and, you know, you kind of realize it like, right, then you know, that if those guys ever wanted to shoot, they're good at all of it. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. Yeah. I remember trying to think now. I guess it was probably like, three years ago. Do these restaurant, I don't wrestle church camp. But then there was also like church game criminals. Or Josh was playing drums. You know, it's like, Oh, shit. You know, I guess they played here a handful of times. And it was always great seeing like, you know, four or five songwriters play in this band. And they were they'd get Nick shoot, sometimes play some trumpet. And then one time, Josh had met this dude playing saxophone here who was just like in Toms, and he was like, What are you doing tomorrow? He was just like, coming through town. Oh, nothing you want to play with us? And so like, those shows, the ones that I saw at least, that first song would be incredible. Like, holy shit, man. This is amazing. This is great. And then slowly from that point on to the end of the night, it just be a gradual decline because like they had never really tested the songs out together. Yeah, like they sound check that one those first couple songs and then after that was just like, just right. Yes, you're in you're strapped in for the ride. Yeah. Has there been any cool little song swaps that you've been a part of? Or like just jam shows like you legendary status now. Zack McGinn: Man, Ben and Josh and them also used to do a little project before arrested at church camp called champion the yokels. Okay and that was Ben side project thing. And it was always fun you know to jump up and you know, play a song with those guys. Good Josh. Josh would rather play drums or guitar or whatever. And then our drummer at the time you know, he was also a bass player and a pretty damn good one too. So you know, he was in the band and depending on the night You know, they were all playing different instruments but yeah, those are always extremely fun shows you know do a lot of cool obscure covers, you know, that you normally wouldn't do in in a live show but just something fun just to kind of Fuck off. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, fun. No, that's probably something Stephenville has a little bit more than here is that those like there's more guys being able to do multiple multiple instruments like here. If you're a bass player, you're playing bass really like I can only think of like Parker being a guy who can play really great guitar and then obviously doing bass with with bread. So Zack McGinn: man, I'm I'm kind of one of those one instrument guys so I can play guitar and that's about it. But yeah, it's always amazed me the guys you know, have that talent they can play you know, anything they put in our hands. Thomas Mooney: You ever gonna start experimented with some banjo or mandolin Zack McGinn: man up string attempting to mess around with a mandolin a little bit and I'm kind of starting to get it down. So I'm gonna it's, it's fun. It's fun. It's enjoyable. Because, you know, it's a it's a challenge for me, you know, because it's something new. So, Thomas Mooney: yeah, I could see that being an instrument that would work well within the band, you know? Zack McGinn: Yeah, it would, you know, our fiddle player plays a mando too. So he plays one way better than I do. So you know, I guess you'd be the one playing it the majority of the time but I'd like to eventually bring one out on stage a little bit just to change it up. Yeah. Thomas Mooney: One of the best songs I've heard with manda was bingum was doing Terry Allen's there ought to be a law against sunny Southern California on mandolin. And, man, it was fucking incredible. Like I don't think anyone in the crowd really knew that song because it's obscure Terry Allen song is fucking incredible. Like it had that drive in it. The grit. Have you heard that song before? Zack McGinn: I've never actually heard that one. Whatever. Do you know a lot of Terry stuff. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, that one. That one's on. I guess it's on two records. It's on his first record or is and like in the song. You know, Terry? I don't know what he says like, Fuck, probably like three or four times and then he says, you know, shit a few times, though. You know the, the the frat cowboys love that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, like the storylines. Great, too. But you know if you have fucking a song. Yes. People are gonna be like, hell yeah. He just said the F word. Yeah. Yeah. That's where, like, what's that song? By being the guest who's knocking? Like, I think that song honestly, was a song that he wrote to try and lose fans. Like, it was right after the crazy heart. So he's just trying to drop some fans. So he wrote that song. And then it became like an anthem. Yeah, it's backed up by a shitload more fans for him. Yeah. I don't know. That's probably like my bottom 10 big songs. There you go. Yeah, you're being a fan. Zack McGinn: I am man. I've always enjoyed his stuff. I I think he's one of the cooler dudes out there right now. For sure. Yeah. Thomas Mooney: You know, me and Charlie, were talking about this yesterday. Like, he really tried to lose that Texas country label that we were trying to put on him, you know, he, we're in such a opposite direction for such a long time. You know, trying to lose it, shake it, you know? I think if we if we would have just called on Texas music, he would have been more okay with it, you know, but Zack McGinn: yeah, but, you know, I've listened to multiple interviews, you know, hearing that guy talk about his music, you know, and where he wants to go with it. And he's never been one to follow the path so obviously, you know, if he's trying to get labeled he was gonna try to get away from it. Thomas Mooney: Yeah. You okay with labels? Zack McGinn: They are what they are. I just play music. I don't really give a shit. Whenever they put me in. Thomas Mooney: Yeah, I bet you'd have a problem if they were like dolly shot and the leader bro country or some shit. Yeah, I get pity. For Damn. Yeah, well, uh, we're rolling on 40 minutes here. We're gonna call it a good share, man. But you guys get out of here and eaten. Go grub shower. Get the show face on. Yeah, well, that was fun. Zack McGinn: Thanks for having me, dude. Thomas Mooney: We'll do it again sometime later. Zack McGin: Yes, sir. All right.